Father-Daughter Duo
What Ethan and Maya Hawke Learned Working on Their First Film Together
Actors sat down with Rolling Stone to talk about their upcoming film Wildcat, family dynamics on set, and why making a movie is a lot like making soup
Sitting at the Hawke family dinner table, it would probably feel near impossible not to talk about the upcoming season of Stranger Things with Maya Hawke or what it was like on the set of Taylor Swift’s latest music video, which Ethan Hawke made a cameo in. But for the father-daughter duo, starring in a handful of iconic shows and movies is the last thing on their mind as they are catching up at the end of a long day.
“Right now, in our family, my brother and two sisters are still in school. And so I think a lot of our questioning often is about their war stories — their stories from school,” Maya says. “It feels very normal.”
But there is one movie as of late that Maya and Ethan can’t help but let slip into conversation as they pass the potatoes to one another: Wildcat. It’s their first film together, with Ethan in the director’s chair and Maya, also the daughter of actress Uma Thurman, in the starring role.
“We had a lot of different ideas about stuff we wanted to work on together,” says Maya. “This is the one that happened.”
The biopic, in theaters May 3, follows celebrated writer Flannery O’Connor (Maya) as she struggles to publish her first novel while dealing with a lupus diagnosis.
“We felt we felt very strongly that we owed our other collaborators because we were getting this gift of being able to work together,” says Ethan. “So we almost felt in debt from the moment we walked on set. We had to make sure we worked harder than we would have, we stayed later, we were more prepared. We were taking the gift that they were giving us seriously.”
Ahead of the film’s release, Rolling Stone spoke with Ethan and Maya Hawke over Zoom about everything from their family dynamic both on and off set to why working on a movie felt a lot like making soup and a surprising anecdote about three-time Academy Award winner Meryl Streep.
Maya, when did you first become cognizant of the fact that both of your parents are A-list actors?
Maya: I don’t know if I even am now. [Ethan and Maya laugh] I remember being on a school bus as a kid and telling some girls that I wanted to be a farmer and them being like, “Why don’t you want to be an actor? Your parents are actors!” And I remember in more gossip times, growing up hearing that people’s mothers had read such-and-such in a magazine. I remember things like that.
Sometimes, I got to participate in stuff like going backstage on [broadway show] The Coast of Utopia and touching the ocean that was made out of a giant silk blanket. I got to go with my mom on set to My Super Ex-Girlfriend, getting put in the harness and pretending to fly. But I think what your question is targeting is more of an exterior knowledge of cultural standing. And that I don’t know. I think that was something you become aware of very, very slowly over time, where you don’t ever really notice.
It probably just felt normal to you.
Maya: That’s the thing. It took a lot of social interaction to realize that it wasn’t normal, especially growing up in New York City and going to the schools that I went to. There were a lot of kids who lived similar lives. I was friends with Cal Freundlich, Julianne Moore’s son. There was not a sense that it was so abnormal and weird. So I think it took a little time of getting out of school almost to realize “Oh, anywhere else I’d go in the world. This is a big deal.”
Ethan, when did you first realize that Maya not only wanted to be an actor but actually had what it took to be one?
Ethan: Well, gosh, I would say – and I think a lot of parents would agree with me about this – that you kind of get a sense of who they are extremely young. I felt simpatico with Maya. From the time she could speak, I felt that I knew this person, and I thought that we were oddly similar. All her interest in the arts never surprised me. You know, there are some kids that you say, “Do you want to go to a museum?” and they go, “Oh, please, no.” And Maya would say, “Oh, yeah, let’s go to the Frick!” I didn’t know how it would manifest because she’s always been a really good poet and a really good performer, and she’s always really enjoyed being with people older than her. And she was very good at it. She had a great skill set for that.
I thought you were gonna ask me about when I first noticed her cultural standing. And people would say “There’s Maya’s dad!” and that happens all the time now.
Maya: Only within a certain age and demographic. Girls between 11-15, I might have the market cornered on. [Both laugh]
Having experienced both the good and the bad sides of Hollywood yourself, were you at all nervous about Maya entering show business?
Ethan: In all honesty, I wasn’t. I felt that she was really good at it. I feel that way in this Zoom interview. I like the way that she answers your questions. She surprises me, and I think she’s got a lot to offer. I think it’s a difficult profession… but I was never worried about Maya.
Frankly, to be honest, I also didn’t think she was good at anything else. [Maya laughs] So I thought she better.
Maya: Every industry has challenges, no matter where you go to work.I think any job has its upsides and downsides, and it gets better the more successful you are at it and the better community you’re in while you’re doing it. There are always, in every industry, issues. I’m sure as a journalist you find that too.
Ethan: That’s absolutely true.
This is the only thing I ever wanted to do, so I can relate to that impulse.
Ethan: But I believe in that impulse. I think that’s how the world talks to you. If you really excel at something, keep doing that.
How did Wildcat come to be? I understand that you, Maya, brought the project to your dad. Is that right?
Maya: Well, it’s our project. I got it stuck in my head like a little bee in my bonnet that I wanted to play this character. And I was talking about it in the press a bunch. I was talking about it because I was looking for the guy Joe Goodman, who had all the rights to all the letters and short stories. Then I connected him with Ethan, with the hopes that my dad would want to write and direct a script for me to play in.
I was assigned Flannery O’Connor by my English teacher, and I wanted to do some extra reading. I found her prayer journal. And then I read it and loved it. And I knew that my dad had always been extremely interested in smart people who are interested in God. It’s a very large class of people that exist, and they’re kind of underrepresented. And the prayer journal is this smart young woman who was really, really interested in her faith and God. I thought it would be an awesome ground for us to connect on. It just seemed like something he would really like. Actually, he’d already read her short stories when he was a kid because his mother gave them to him.
We shared this passion for many, many years. Then Wildcat started to show itself by finally figuring out who had the rights – it just caught fire in a way we never would have expected.
Were there any apprehensions about working together?
Ethan: I’ll take that one because we have the same answer. Right before we started shooting, we had this kind of heart-to-heart where we realized everybody in our life had been asking us: “Are you nervous about working together?” And we both, perhaps stupidly, the thought never really occurred to me. A lot of people who love you are like, “Hey, are you nervous about this?” Am I in danger here? Am I not seeing some blinking red lights or something? We both just laughed because we really enjoyed this together. It’s not like somebody had to tell me that Maya is headstrong and passionate and has creative ideas. I know she does! But I really admire that.
My strength, if I have one, as a director is that I really like actors, and I like giving creative space to let them do what they want to do. I’ve grown up acting, and I resent it when I feel that there are guardrails put on my creativity and my ability to express myself. I love to surprise directors, I love to give them things they didn’t anticipate and to be an extension of their imagination, you know? I see the position is really — what’s the you on a ship who stands next to the captain, Maya? What’s the word for that?
Maya: First mate?
Ethan: First mate! You’re like, “Hey, man, we’re sailing across the ocean. I got your back, captain.” You know, Starbuck and Moby Dick. I was just excited. And the truth is, it was exactly like I thought it would be. There wasn’t anything to fear. One of the smartest things Maya and I did was lasso Laura Linney to be our co-collaborator because she comes to set with so many ideas, and she doesn’t do anything that she doesn’t have a lot of passion for. And that was a very exciting element to bring into Maya, and I’s collaboration because it changed the dynamic. We’re both nervous around her and want to do our best work for her. It’s the same way with our cinematographer and other collaborators that came in. We didn’t exist in a vacuum.
Speaking on the dynamic of family, were you conscious of putting it aside while on set, or do you think it actually helped the collaboration process?
Maya: Making a movie is like making soup with a big group of people coming together. The family love goes in, and it actually adds to it. I think this movie set made people feel comfortable and that they were a part of something that made sense, that had a family organization. My stepmom was also a producer. It had a little hometown feel. If you try to pretend that family dynamic isn’t there, like telling your collaborators you aren’t wearing a wig when you are, there’s some little lie that gets into this soup and impacts it.
It doesn’t make sense to pretend anything that’s happening isn’t true. So much pretending is already happening in the way that you’re telling the story that you actually need to come up with the truth. If I walked on set and was like, “I want everyone to treat me like this is not a family project,” it would be ridiculous! You have to let things be what they are.
Ethan: One time, I was doing a play with Josh Hamilton, who I’d started a theatre company with when I was 19. Meryl Streep came backstage, and she wanted to ask us all these questions about the rehearsal process. I said, “Well, you know, we’ve been friends for 20” – it was 20 years. And she’s like, “Oh, you cheated.” She was trying to figure out how we got such a level of intimacy on stage.
Intimacy does create great work. It creates secrets. It creates layers – if people are taking their work seriously and not being indulgent. One of the greatest contributions to the American Theatre is Steppenwolf. And those guys all went to high school together. They were in a band together, making something. I think Maya and I were hoping that our shared love of this movie would be contagious.
Maya: I think that level of knowledge in your co-collaborators is something that you hope for in any environment, and we were lucky enough to get to create in Wildcat through the power of our history.
In the film, Flannery talks about how she only knows the kind of storytelling she’s doing once she starts writing. Is that similar to either of your approaches to acting?
Ethan: I don’t know if you feel this way, Maya, but sometimes I’ll sit here and memorize lines, and you’re thinking about how you might play it, and then it all changes when you look in the other actor’s face, or you get on the set and the costumes are on and you see the way it’s lit. I love the metaphor Maya used about soup. It’s like you’re preparing your section of the soup, and then you get thrown into this boiling water, and it all changes. And if you’re not prepared, you can lose your sense of self. It is great to be prepared, mostly just to have something to hold on to when it all goes away.
Maya: I’ve been playing the same character on Stranger Things since I was 19 years old. It’s the most time I’ve spent playing any character, and I still don’t know what I’m going to do every day when I go in. I’m totally affected by what my scene partners do. I even have moments where I leave set, and I’m like, “Did I just play my character, or did I just invent a new character today?” I feel nervous about that, you know, but that’s also the thing about people. If you’re working with a good director, who can sort through it and make sure it makes sense – people are so different in every situation that you see them in – like we’re here doing an interview, and we’re a certain way, but if you came over for dinner at our house, it would feel different.
Maya, you also have a new album coming out on May 31. Were you channeling Flannery at all while making Chaos Angel?
Maya: I finished that album while I was making the movie. Because as soon as it was over, I went to go record it. The title of the album comes from working on this movie. I was really inspired by Flannery and the idea that she was fighting against her guardian angel. I liked this idea, and it became a hidden meaning for me in the whole movie.
And then a meaning in my record is that, so often, we fight our best instincts, like the things that come to us that are telling you who you are and what you want. You think, “I should probably go home I should probably leave the party right now.” And then you go, “Nah, it’s fine. I’ll stay.” And that’s like a real-life version of fighting your guardian angel. I wanted to make a record about that idea and the ways in which we resist our best selves. Kind of a plea to wanting to welcome your best self.
What does music fulfill for you that acting might not? And Ethan, does directing fulfill something different than acting?
Maya: To me, it’s like an outlet on the wall. Music, acting, writing, directing – it’s just a different lamp you plug into the outlet. The power source is the same.
Sometimes, you get sick of the light from one lamp. It’s exciting to put in a new lamp to re-spark the outlet to give yourself more energy. It comes from the place of wanting to create and be in conversation with imagination. What music gives me that acting might not, is that I don’t have to ask anyone’s permission to do it. It’s an easier thing to do to get done in a certain way.
Ethan: I think that was really well put. For me, when I’m behind the camera, and I’m watching Maya and Laura do a scene, I want to be in it so badly. It’s such a great feeling to know that I still have. Sometimes, when you’re acting, you can get frustrated with the producers and directors because it feels like they’re in charge. Sometimes if you do that for a little while, you’re like, “Dammit, I want to be in charge.” And then you’re the one in charge, and you’re like, “Oh, the actors are in charge because if they don’t make the scene work, it doesn’t matter what anybody did.” [Maya laughs] It feels really good to change chairs at the table because it just fuels your curiosity engine.
Maya: That’s totally true. One thing you learn as you take on different roles is that the amazing thing about collaborative art forms is that nobody is in charge because everybody has to show up fully to have anything get done. Including the grip and electricity, and costumes and hair – everyone has to come with their full self, or nothing happens. It’s just an illusion that somebody is in charge.
Ethan: Nothing ruins your performance more than the wrong coat. You can be Daniel Day-Lewis, doing the best work of your life, and if the jacket’s wrong, it’s all anybody’s thinking about – the scene doesn’t work. We don’t live in a vacuum. We live in this connective tissue.
